Posts by Hold Me-Thrill Me

114

Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?

by Viviane in

several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.

i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.

indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.

Hold Me-Thrill Me

I don't know but it could be magic? ;)

Enjoyed the conversation Cappytan. Thanks.

114

Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?

by Viviane in

several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.

i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.

indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.

Hold Me-Thrill Me

Cappytan, Am I to understand then that an atheist can believe in evolution but suspend belief in abiogenesis until it is proven? And until it is proven does that mean his belief in abiogenesis is up in the air and could go either way? Truly? In practice though, is not abiogenesis a firm belief among atheists and one which atheistic scientists are hard at work trying to find evidence for.

Viviane: Why do you think it's admirable to respect a belief simply because it's "sincere"?

Remember we're talking those who believe in God and those who do not. Yes, if someone is sincere their belief or non-belief imo should be respected. Why? We are all intelligent adults free to make our own decisions on whether God exists or not.

114

Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?

by Viviane in

several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.

i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.

indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.

Hold Me-Thrill Me

Still no answer as to why scientists make the claim that life originated from non-living matter without backing it up. Using redirection, which serves to answer without answering, is the method that must be employed when proof for a belief cannot be provided. So too with believers.

If a Christian comes and says, "I believe in God," he might be asked to prove that God exists, how does he know that God exists? If he says "I can't prove it but I do believe it, it makes sense to me", he might then be told "How can you believe in something you can't prove or see?"

To believe that life originated from non-living matter is just as unprovable but it is a "fact' that science believes it and teaches it. Is NASA searching for evidence of life in the solar system that was born from life? No, NASA is searching for rudimentary life that originated on its own from lifeless matter. Billions of dollars on a myth? or is it truly a firm belief that life from lifeless matter can occur, has occurred. Yes, it is.

Everyone has a belief he or she cannot prove. Religious people believe God created life, life from life. Scientists who believe in evolution/abiogenesis as the origin of all living things believe life came from non-living matter.

I'm okay with scientists who believe life came from non-living matter without proof of such. They are entitled to their views and I respect that. The thing is why can't they do the same with people who believe life came from life? Why can't respecting an individual's sincere belief be across the board? It should go both ways...Christian to Evolutionist...Evolutionist to Christian. We are all adults living on the same planet.

I am well aware there are people who though not believing in creation still respect a believers right to his own conscience. I'm addressing those believers and non-believers who cannot resist the temptation to build themselves up by putting down the other. Believer or Non-believer.

114

Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?

by Viviane in

several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.

i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.

indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.

Hold Me-Thrill Me

I just provided an example on this thread.

114

Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?

by Viviane in

several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.

i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.

indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.

Hold Me-Thrill Me

Science claims many things it can't prove but when it comes to religion we must prove. Double standard.

114

Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?

by Viviane in

several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.

i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.

indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.

Hold Me-Thrill Me

Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?

I don't know. ;)

I've often wondered why it is those who believe in evolution claim that life started from non-living material but refuse to back that up. It's a mystery to me. They claim something they have no proof of. Unheard of!

17

JW Broadcasting Monthly Programs

by Oubliette in

atlantis posted a new boe letter on this thread: new!-2015 april 10, boe!

here's an excerpt from that letter:.

to all congregations re: jw broadcasting monthly programs .

Hold Me-Thrill Me

On the first broadcast they claimed to have had Jehovah's backing on this venture. Now apparently God's backing was not quite enough, clapping hands in the audience ahh that's the ticket to keeping televangelists' programs in good health.

26

David Schafer's Mistake

by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

thanks cappytan for posting the thread "jehovah's people as a whole can never be corrupted".

it's a sad example of how low in simple reading skills the present gb and their helpers are.

david schafer referred to philippians 4:7 on jw broadcasting.

Hold Me-Thrill Me

I feel for the younger generation in the congregation. I see myself in them, myself over 50 years ago. So young, so eager to enter into the opportunities to serve, so hopeful. Will they 50 years from now be where I am today? I don't think so. The end of the Watchtower as we know it is coming. What that will mean I do not know but we can feel it in our bones, stormy weather is coming and the Governing Body will handle it very badly. Little by little they have removed a nail here and there, a 2 by 4, a piece of siding...when a hard wind blows the building will shake and the GB will look to blame whoever is convenient...their Helpers.

I also feel for those in my generation who sincerely and with loving hearts made the mistake of trusting in men...we forgot...we did not remember because we chose not to remember...we forgot that we must trust ONLY in God and his Son not in men. Hard lesson to learn so late in life but as long as we have breath we can go forward with that lesson under our belts and do good by helping others to maintain a positive outlook and hope for a better day.

I was so encouraged by all the responses on this thread.

Thank you,

Frank

26

David Schafer's Mistake

by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

thanks cappytan for posting the thread "jehovah's people as a whole can never be corrupted".

it's a sad example of how low in simple reading skills the present gb and their helpers are.

david schafer referred to philippians 4:7 on jw broadcasting.

Hold Me-Thrill Me

The current leadership is unable to keep it together. They're great at building brick and mortar structures but are a fail in building a loving structure that shelters the friends, gives them a home where they are safe and well fed. The Governing Body likes to say how much they love us and how wonderful the Kingdom will be and how we just have to keep going and keep preaching and we'll all get there together. But they are a facade, they are not real. They are like the orchestra on the Titanic. Nice music but it won't save the ship.

Anthony Morris is haughty and believes humiliation is a good teaching tool, Splane's mind is always somewhere else as if he is already in heaven leading an angelic chorus in a new song, Lett is slippery with over the top love masking a hardness, and so on. But those traits are just the outward symptoms of the real problem. The real problem is that they are spiritually DRY. They have no real food to give they are sad men in positions they cannot bear the weight of. They are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The overlapping generation "theory" was so bad, so stupid in fact, that they exposed themselves with it. They exposed their desperation, any passing piece of debris that would keep them afloat a little longer was good enough. Polish it, present it and move on because the friends are a bunch of sheep who will swallow whatever we give them...appears to be their thinking.

The old GB finally died off in 2010 leaving us these lost boys who cannot truly read the Bible so they decided to entertain us instead. And so the endless stream of videos and Caleb and JW Broadcasting. All there to keep the friends entertained so that perhaps they do not see that their house is a house of cards about to fall around them.

More and more will leave, more and more are leaving if not physically then mentally. I am one of them, one of thousands who feel the shift toward something we did not sign up for. We signed up because we love God and Christ we did not sign up to follow the Governing Body into spiritual hell.

Thanks to all for their comments on this thread.

Frank

26

David Schafer's Mistake

by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

thanks cappytan for posting the thread "jehovah's people as a whole can never be corrupted".

it's a sad example of how low in simple reading skills the present gb and their helpers are.

david schafer referred to philippians 4:7 on jw broadcasting.

Hold Me-Thrill Me

Thanks Cappytan for posting the thread "Jehovah's people as a whole can never be corrupted". It's a sad example of how low in simple reading skills the present GB and their helpers are. David Schafer referred to Philippians 4:7 on JW Broadcasting. Note the total misapplication of the word "understanding" in the his talk:

David Schafer said:

"If you tap the 6 on your iPad at Phil. 4:6, you’ll notice that the King James renders this verse “Be careful for nothing…” which sounds like an exhortation to worry needlessly, exactly the opposite of what Phil. 4:6,7 is encouraging us to do.

"Namely, “Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything, by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.”

"Now, I invite you to use the bookmark feature of your JW Library as we’ll return here.
But now, regarding the comments in our text today that have to do with stumbling, how is it, what are some sorts of understanding that are surpassed by the peace of God.

"Sometimes, when a person is mistreated, he thinks, and rightly so, that this sort of thing ought not to happen in Jehovah’s organization.
How might the peace of God surpass that understanding?
One way is that Jehovah reminds us through his word that sometimes things happen in Jehovah’s organization that ought not to happen."

Further on he says:

"So, how is it that this brother that disappointed me can maintain a good standing?
That is a form of understanding.
How does the peace of God surpass that understanding?
Well, one way is that it brings back to our minds the Christian Greek Scriptures are full of counsel directed to us to help us put up with those who have given us a legitimate cause for complaint." (end quote)

The brother is missing the whole point of the scripture. The "peace of God that surpasses all understanding" does not refer to an "understanding" that someone may have but rather that the peace of God exceeds our understanding, it is beyond our understanding, it is unfathomable. Barnes commentary says, "The expression is one that denotes that the peace imparted is of the highest possible kind." It is a peace that surpasses our ability to understand it that is how powerful Paul is saying it is; not that a man's understanding of something is surpassed by God's peace.

When I first watched the video I walked away not knowing what to make of it. It brought such sadness that here was another example of poor scriptural application by the present GB and their helpers. They are not careful. Brother Herd said he spends quite a bit of his time reading what is given him to read I presume by the writing dept. It shows! Who is at the helm? Not Jehovah. And certainly not the GB. I believe its Helpers Inc. who are in charge.

Frank- an active Jehovah's Witness

(Again my thanks to Cappytan)